The watcher
Noel
I also don't have the quote from Khyentse Rinpoche's talk, but my understanding (from CTR's teachings and from the Pramana teachings) is that there are two possibilities for a "watcher":
One is the self-awareness that experiences itself, experiences all that appears to the mind whether it is an outer experience or an inner experience (conceptual and non-conceptual). This self-awareness is non-dual. I think CTR called it the "abstract watcher". That self-awareness is part of the 6th consciousness as far as I can determine.
Then there is the "watcher" that is associated with the ego that is associated with the 7th (and 8th consciousness), that brings in the problems of duality and all the protective emotional reference points. CTR seemed to equate this "watcher" to the mind that is constantly judging and dealing with the duality of "good or bad", "right or wrong", "going for pleasure and avoiding pain".
This is one way the concept of a "watcher" can be looked at. The idea of a "watcher" being "recruited by the ego into its retinue" is an interesting thought that needs contemplation.
June
I also don't have the quote from Khyentse Rinpoche's talk, but my understanding (from CTR's teachings and from the Pramana teachings) is that there are two possibilities for a "watcher":
One is the self-awareness that experiences itself, experiences all that appears to the mind whether it is an outer experience or an inner experience (conceptual and non-conceptual). This self-awareness is non-dual. I think CTR called it the "abstract watcher". That self-awareness is part of the 6th consciousness as far as I can determine.
Then there is the "watcher" that is associated with the ego that is associated with the 7th (and 8th consciousness), that brings in the problems of duality and all the protective emotional reference points. CTR seemed to equate this "watcher" to the mind that is constantly judging and dealing with the duality of "good or bad", "right or wrong", "going for pleasure and avoiding pain".
This is one way the concept of a "watcher" can be looked at. The idea of a "watcher" being "recruited by the ego into its retinue" is an interesting thought that needs contemplation.
June
posted by Chronicles of CTR at 6:22 PM
1 Comments:
This is helpful.
I looked up "watcher" in the index of Myth and read all the entries, which was very interesting. I also re-read the description of the 7th consciousness in the '73 transcripts and in SMR's '99 transcripts.
The watcher is described as that which looks at negativity and turns it into "negative negativity." It is also the thread of ego which perceives egolessness, but maintains some separation. VCTR says the bodhisattva must go through 10 stages of development in order to cut through the watcher.
SMR describes the 7th consciousness as that which looks at the others and thinks of them, especially the 8th, as a self. And also that it is at the 10th bhumi that one sheds the 7th consciousness. VCTR calls it "instigator of the kleshas," which seems connected to that notion of negative negativity.
This is all interesting to me, but my original flash of curiousity about this, re-sparked by DKR's comment, has to do with the Shambhala and vajrayana instruction for relating with the 7th consciousness. Rather than "cutting through" the 7th consciousness, we use it to connect with vastness. We use the 7th's passion to dissolve into vast perception.
So, does this correlation still make sense? In other words, at a more advanced level, can we use "the watcher" (dzin pa/ shenpa), to connect with drala or mahamudra? Is that another way of working towards the ultimate dropping of the watcher?
Or am I just overthinking...
Noel
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